Ok. This is my last and final response to to this issue. I tried to
present a calm, reasoned out description about library practice, but I get
verbal abuse, accused of snobbery, etc.
Point number 1. If you took the time to understand about the institution I
work for. I work for the AMERICAN ANTIQUARIAN SOCIETY. Now sound out the
words. Get a dictionary and find out what they mean. Go to our website and
read about our mission. Get a friend to help you with the difficult words.
We collection only materials PRINTED IN NORTH AMERICA BEFORE 1877. We
document early American history, society, and culture through what it has
printed. Anything printed in France in the sixteenth century no matter what
the topic is IRRELEVANT TO OUR MISSION. For us to spend time, money, staff
effort, to accept, catalog, and process anything, even if it is given to us,
is irrelevant to our mission, and in fact would take away resources needed
to keep us with the relevant things we are adding to our collection. In
addition, people come to AAS to use our collections for American research
because our collection is focused and rich. A CD or even an original work
on Nostradamus printed in France in the 1500s would languish on our shelf.
We are not here to collect everything.
2. I have news for you. Just because a library does not accept, catalog,
and shelve your work does not mean we are snobs. Your friend has the right
to publish whatever he wants. Libraries have the right to accept or reject
whatever we want based on selection criteria, not because of emotion or we
are uptight snobs.
3. Not everyone is interested in Nostradamus. Go back and read my post
about the reasons why different libraries collect different topics. I'm
sure the information is shattering news in the fields of the occult, the
paranormal, and Renaissance French literature. It isn't to most of the
general public, mathematicians, economists, etc. Personal interests are not
earth-shattering interests. Personally I think Nostradamus is bad poetry
(yes I've read various translations), vague, and has only produced
"relevant" interpretations after the fact. No better than a carnival cold
reader. However, if I worked for a library that had a paranormal, occult,
or Renaissance French literature collection, then I would obtain the CD for
the collection. For my opinion is irrelevant to selection policy. For the
first two categories, I would also buy James Randi's book on Nostradamus,
but not for the third category because his work is irrelevant to Renaissance
French literature.
4. GROUND-BREAKING WORKS ARE ONLY GROUND-BREAKING IN THEIR OWN FIELDS. John
Nash (from "A Beautiful Mind") wrote a groundbreaking dissertation that took
many years for it to be recognized as groundbreaking. Once it was realized
as groundbreaking, guess what, over 99% of the libraries still don't have a
copy of his dissertation.
5. If you look at the whole field of publishing before 1600, there are many
books known in one or two copies. Even after that date. Peruse any major
antiquarian book dealer's catalog and you will find copies of books for sale
that are unique and/or unrecorded. Why aren't they snapped up by libraries?
Because we have limited budgets. Even if every book that is known in less
than 5 copies were available on microfilm or CD, we wouldn't be buying up
all of them. If all of them were available for free in microfilm or CD, we
wouldn't take all of them
Public libraries has selection policies just like academic libraries. You
state that 99% of libraries freely accept gifts. That doesn't mean they are
all added to the collection. Check out the booksales they have once or
twice a year (or their sale table). I tell you what. Since the publisher
is willing to give away CDs of these works, let's try an experiment. I'll
give you a chance to prove your assertion. Randomly select 2 public
libraries in each state. Have them sent a copy of the CDS to the libraries
with a letter that this is an unrestrictive gift, and they can do with it
what they want. We won't include academic libraries in the experiment
because they are such pompous snobs.
How will we prove the results one way or the other? Almost all public
libraries share their records with OCLC (Online Computer Library Center).
This is a centralized shared catalog among libraries. There are many
thousands of libraries across the US (including public libraries) that add
their records to here. There are over 50 million items cataloged here.
Here's another little bit about librarianship. We want people to get the
materials they want. Since we cant own even a fraction of the items
published, when a patron puts in a request and a library doesn't have it,
they can find out who has it and place an interlibrary loan request.
Libraries loan materials between each other many thousands of times each
day. OCLC also provides ready-made cataloging records so that when a
library obtains a new item, they don't have to catalog it from scratch.
They can go to OCLC, download the record, catalog the item, then add the
fact they have the item in OCLC's database (it is more detailed than this,
but the simplified version is enough to convey the purpose and operation).
So where will be the proof? AFter the CDs are distributed, we wait a year
(many libraries have backlogs), then we check the OCLC database and see how
many libraries have reported the fact the eBook was added to the collection.
Remember this database catalogs items, not just books. It has movies in
various formats, sound recordings, CDs, software, cuneform tablets, medieval
manuscripts, sheet music, etc. If a member library catalogs it, the record
will be loaded into the database. Will we find over 90 of the gifts added
to the collection? I doublt we will see 25.
And finally, notice how I gry to use reason, calmness, rationale, and facts
to try and express my point. I didn't have to use nasty language that would
detract from the message. I didn't have to use any demeaning langauge
(well, perhaps a little in #1). How does my trying to make calm rational
opinions warrent me being called a snob, an a**hole, or any of the other
labels you've stuck on me?
Vincent Golden
Curator of Newspapers and Periodicals
American Antiquarian Society (not the French Lit. Soc.)
-----Original Message-----
From: DEA
To: Multiple recipients of list
Sent: 11/13/03 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Back to the original question about eBooks
99% of libraries would gladly take any book donations, since most are
little out of the way places with little budgets in remote areas
Now the top 1% of libraries, including those run my larger Universities
might turn away gifts, but then again, these places are elitists dens of
snobbery that are not open to controversial or break through works
If you think THE ONLY KNOWN COPY of a 1566 edition of Nostradamus to
have the correct amount of prophecies is not a MAJOR FIND, then you are
a pompous fool
Here BOZO, do you understand the work is THE ONLY KNOW EDITION?
I can almost guarantee you don't have one 16th C Nostradamus or even a
17th C Nostradamus in your "collection"
Yet, Nostradamus is next to Shakespeare and the Bible the top selling
author in history
Now a pompous ass like you says you only want ORIGINALS
Get real putz, most of the early editions of Nostradamus are ONE or TWO
of a kind treasures
You bullshit library doesn't own one
And you sure don't have any of the rare facsimile's that Nostradamian
scholars have
Do you think students in early French Lit would like to see such rare
works in any format?
Damn you assholes are such pompous maggots
Golden, Vincent wrote:
>Despite the vitriolic nature of most of the postings, let us get back
to the
>original issue that DEA raised and is quite a valid topic for
discussion on
>this list. The exchange at the beginning was quite interesting
discussing
>various aspects of distribution, previous attempts, security, etc.
>
>The difference between books and movies or music is that a book is a
>stand-alone object. The public is used to purchasing, renting or
borrowing
>different types of media over the years in order to partake of the
>entertainment. Look at music. At first people had to learn to play an
>instrument themselves or go in person to where it was played (concert,
>someone elses house, etc.). Then the phonograph came about. People
could
>purchase a cylinder or disk, take it home, and play it on a machine.
No
>need for expensive instruments or travel. You could enjoy it in your
home
>whenever you wanted. The player piano was another legitimate format.
You
>had a machine that played the piano, and all you had to do was buy a
roll of
>prepunched paper, load it, and voila; music. The radio was another
medium
>of distribution, but it wasn't a format for listening to music what you
>wanted when you wanted. Between then and today we had wire recorders,
>cassettes, 8-tracks, CDs, and MP3s (and I know I've missed others).
Yet the
>end goal was the same. Listening to music. You could close your eyes,
sit
>back and let your ears do the work. The quality was based on the
equipment.
>
>Now text is a whole different matter. No matter what the format:
tablets,
>scrolls, codex, etc., it has always relied on the interaction of the
eye
>with the text (Braille being one exception). For the past couple
thousand
>years we've refined the codex. It is such a convenient package.
Portable,
>cordless, power free, easy to use, random accessible, etc. You can
read it
>in any room of the house (and often is), outside of the abode, on the
beach,
>or almost anywhere. As a previous poster has noted, alternative
formats
>including CDs have been tried before. However, it appears that the
>resistance has been more with the reader than with libraries and
>distributors. Handheld devices haven't come close to the optimistic
>estimates of sales. Project Gutenburg has thousands of books free in
>electronic format. Yet it hasn't hurt the sales of any of the titles
on the
>list. Penguin still puts out many classics. Alice in Wonderland still
>sells. People still want a nice solid book in their hands. An ebook
>requires a computer of some kind, is less portable, and is less durable
than
>a paper book. I've handled books and manuscripts over 500 years old in
>their original binding and they are still great solid books. Will an
eBook
>last half that long? Will it last mroe than 10 years? Will the
software
>need to be updated (or old software maintained to read it)?
>
>I won't deal with the control of content you brought up because that is
one
>area I do not have enough technical know how.
>
>On another front. Libraries have selection procedures for purchasing
>materials and adding them to their collection whether it be books,
music,
>movies, or other items. What many people fail to realize is that
libraries
>do not try to own everything. The argument, "you don't have this" does
not
>mean, "you therefore want to buy what I have" or even want it if it is
>donated. First of all, free items cost money. There are costs in
>administration, record keeping, marking, and shelving items. It can be
$50
>or more per item. Take a look at a library budget and see what percent
is
>for personnnel.
>
>As to the selection process, librarians rely on reviews, advice from
subject
>specialists, reputation of the publisher, and other inputs. They also
>evaluate the relevence to their users. A public library does not buy
the
>same books as a university, technical school, religious library, etc.
You
>mentioned your friend was a niche publisher that included occult and
>paranormal. Therefore it obviously won't interest a music,
mathematics,
>commerce, modern lanuage, or Latin American studies library (there
might be
>exceptions on the list). The fact that your friend is a niche
publisher and
>not part of the mainstream world of publishing with distribution
channels to
>jobbers hinders him. Many libraries that buy large quantities of books
>often go through jobbers. That way they have to pay a few select
companies
>instead of trying to manage accounts with hundreds or thousands of
>publishers.
>
>Librarians want ease of use. Books you eventually plunk onto a shelf.
I
>used to work for a technical institute library. They subcribe to many
>periodicals online. IEEE, ACME, ACM, SIAM and other major scientific
>organizations published an electronic version online. They are very
>cooperative in working with the library's computer geeks in making sure
>their users have access. This included working out proxie servers and
other
>details guaranteeing any student or faculty at that institite had
access to
>the content 24 hours a day. There is some extra work for the library
but
>the patrons get access to thousands of scientific periodical titles
every
>day that are important to the mission of the school. Dealing with CDs
about
>the occult and paranormal does nothing towards supporting the
curriculum.
>So it would mean money spent on low use, low relevance materials.
Library
>budgets are too tight for that. Even free material needs to be
supported as
>noted above and that is not free (and I'm not going to get into shelf
space
>issues).
>
>I'll give you another example. I visited the H. Adrian Smith magic
>collection at Brown University in Providence, RI. This collection is
>strictly about sleight of hands, illusions, and the performance of
magic as
>a theatrical art; not an occult practice or study of the paranormal.
They
>have a small acquisitions budget and they purchase a number of titles
each
>year. The key thing to this example is that very few books purchased
are
>published by the major houses. Almost all of the books are put out by
>specialized magic publishers that sell either directly to individuals
or
>distribute through specialized magic shops. You'll never see these
titles
>on Amazon or B&N. They won't be carried by a Borders or Waldenbooks.
Odds
>are you won't find them in an independent bookshop. The librarian that
>purchases for the library gets advertisements from the magic publishers
>because they know they have titles relevant to that collection. The
>librarian also goes through catalogs, reads reviews, and talks with
others
>in the field. This way he finds the majority of the important titles
that
>come out each year (though it doesn't mean he can afford to buy all of
>them).
>
>If your friend wants to market to libraries he should consider:
>1. Finding libraries that have collections of the occult and/or
paranormal
>and focus on advertising to them. Ask at the local libraries how to
find
>them and do research on your own. They are out there, but they won't
beat a
>path to your laptop.
>2. Submit copies of the eBooks to major periodicals that have book
reviews.
>We often rely on reviews. Sometimes multiple reviews of the same title
to
>work out what to purchase.
>3. Spend money to have a booth at the ABA and the American Library
>Association conference in the summer. A booth at these conferences
gets
>much more attention than a flyer.
>4. Find jobbers that are willing to handle eBooks under the specified
>conditions.
>It's going to take focus, effort, and research. If your friend is
spread
>too thinly, then he has to make choices. The world will not beat a
path to
>his door because he has a huge library on CDs.
>
>I used to work at a major university library in the midwest and the
office
>dealth with general funds. Every so often my boss had to deal with
someone
>that had written a book and was royally ticked off that this huge
library
>had not purchased their book. He had to calmly explain the selection
>process and why it was not selected. Others would get into a huge snit
>because they gave us a copy of their book and we didn't add it to the
>collection. They just didn't understand that a library doesn't or
can't
>want everything. Self-published people were the worst. One lady came
in
>with a book filled with photographs of her sculpture. I'm sure it cost
her
>a lot of money to print it, and she was furious that the art library
had not
>bought her $100 book. We wouldn't have bought it at $10.00. It had
nothing
>to do with the curriculum or the interest of the patrons. The book was
all
>about her interest and that is a very small audience. We bought or
accepted
>very little self-published books whether it was an excellent technical
book
>on a particular knitting pattern, poetry, a proof that pi =3.14
exactly, or
>grand conclusions about the universe under the assumption you could
treat
>electrons as ball bearings (all were actual books that came through my
>office).
>
>A final note. A rare book on a CD is not a rare book. For my
institution,
>the whole emphasis is on collecting the originals. We are not
interested in
>actively collecting alternative formats to originals. At my previous
>workplace, I looked at the collection of books on CD by Octavo relevant
to
>history of science and architecture. There were courses on history of
>science and architecture on campus. I met with the various faculty and
>after we reviewed the list, we ended up purchasing a copy of Palladio
for
>one class. I was also the rare book librarian at that time. I was not
>building up a collection of rare books on CD for rare book purposes.
If you
>examine the demand for electronic texts at libraries, it comes from
specific
>departments or groups of the public. English and history departments
want
>UMI's Early English Books online, not rare book libraries. Public
libraries
>often have subcriptions to online resources such as ProQuest which
gives
>access to major nonacademic publications because it is useful to the
casual
>researchers and students that use their facilities. It is up to your
friend
>to find the right libraries. With such a specialized product, even
when it
>is free doesn't mean most libraries want it.
>
>Vincent Golden
>Curator of Newspapers and Periodicals
>American Antiquarian Society
>www.americanantiquarian.org
>185 Salisbury St.
>Worcester, MA 01609-1634
>
>vgolden@mwa.org
>508-471-2148
>
>
>
>
>
>